Trump’s War on Vaping | Intends to “Clear the Market” of Flavored Vaping Products

Trump’s War on Vaping | Intends to “Clear the Market” of Flavored Vaping Products

So we have a
10-minute count I can cut into that sooner. So but I just let the stream go
We get Facebook
Alright stream is up on YouTube live there too as well
Show this house
All right
I’m pretty certain our audience can hear us talk right now, Michelle, so no no
So we’re good there
Want everybody that might be hearing? Yeah a few
Good a few people have already pop it in everybody. That is actually
Considering tuning in that they actually hear
It’s usually for some reason my audio that
We’re almost there. Oh, I’m just gonna make sure that we’ve got
Alright five minutes. I just want to push this up to Twitter
Facebook just as not make things easily the Sheraton where
Yeah, I don’t I don’t even actually know how to this shirt
All right, well I’m gonna focus
All right
Okay, so I think we should go
Hi everybody, I’m Rin Stafford
And this is red watched by regulator watch comm some disturbing news today out of the White House
US President Donald Trump seems to have jumped in on the anti vaping bandwagon in a big way
It is Trump’s war now
It seems to be he is joined with the progressive left in the battle against vaping joining us
Today is Michelle Minton from the Competitive Enterprise Institute
Who is the senior fellow there and an avid I wouldn’t say I don’t know. Would you call yourself a supporter of a pin?
I’m definitely a big supporter of consumers
This was right to make their own choices
at this point really it’s hard for me to not say that I’m a proponent of vaping when it comes to smokers the evidence is
Just so clear. So
What do you think is going on here Michelle because you’re in Washington
we had you on earlier in the year when you were discussing the fear profit terrors report that you would put out which was
fantastic, and it discussed basically the collusion of the nonprofit pressure groups with the public health agencies at the a
CDC and of course the state health department’s so you really do have your finger on
the pulse of this issue walk us through what you think today’s developments mean I
Mean, this is just another political grandstanding
Opportunistic move when it comes to the vaping issue. There’s been so many stories over the last two or three months about this outbreak
That’s supposedly linked to vaping even though from the very beginning
Everybody was saying, you know most of these people seem to be reporting
Cannabis use and in fact a lot of them are reporting
black-market kind of this products and now we are narrowing in on exactly why black market cannabis products seem to be causing these problems and
You know
Unsurprisingly the news media is not as interested in the story anymore
Now that it is becoming clear that e-cigarettes have very little to do with it
What’s happening this week today?
is that a
lot of members of Congress some politicians some very wealthy special interests have decided that it’s a great time to
push past the debate that’s been going on for several years and just
Forced down the throat of the country what they want these bans on
Flavored cigarettes, even though it has nothing to do with what’s going on and the evidence
We just saw another randomized control trial come out in the last week or two showing that e-cigarettes were far more
Effective nearly eight lines as effective orbit are nearly four times as effective as the patch alone
And nobody seems to care
He’s nobody in government seems to care about the actual evidence with the data or what their rules would do to real human beings
So they’re just jumping on
To make a big name for themselves or a please special donors or just anything. It’s pure often is pure opportunism
Yeah, it definitely seems that way and I made a crack
To you when we were talking on the phone or earlier which in my mind
Actually is is definitely true the big concern that we’ve always had when it came to President Trump
Was the fact is it’s not for Republicans taking an anti vaping
Position is basically a win-win for them
It’s an easy way to appease social justice warriors and virtue signaling by getting on the bandwagon
And working across the aisles. It’s very easy to be able to do that
So I haven’t really seen that there was going to be much hope to get Republicans to really support they pain. Yeah, it’s funny
I’ve been saying for years to Republicans and Democrats that the cannabis issue
Legalizing marijuana is a win-win for everybody because it’s what the public wants
There’s a lot of evidence that prohibition just has caused so many problems. We’re seeing that this summer with with cannabis already
in a good way a lot of members have
Recognized that opportunity and are now starting to use it as a really good platform to show that they’re cool
They’re hip, even if they’re Republican they’re down with legalizing weed
Unfortunately, the opportunism is spread to the vaping issue
Yes, it’s a win win for most people especially when you have folks like Michael Bloomberg out there throwing around hundreds of millions of dollars
You know, we just saw the news story that he gave 160 million
To the campaign for tobacco-free kids don’t kill yourself, but that’s the only check is written over the last couple of weeks
I’m sure that he is
also spending a lot of money in Congress and in state
Statehouse as well. Yeah, that is I mean it’s a disgusting amount of money and most of it is all going just straight to propaganda
Absolutely, and that’s what hey, you know, I cracked a joke on Twitter with the recent news about Bloomberg
so nation’s that
whenever I encounter someone who’s very anti vaping very vocal I try to engage most of the time and talk to them and see what
What they know what they think they know and see if we can have a civil
honest conversation about the evidence expressed each others, you know listen to each other’s opinions functionally and
Almost without variation at some point. The person just accuses me of being a shill for jewel or big tobacco or
one of the other and
walks away
Confident that they’re right and I’m wrong
Because if they weren’t, you know, if they I would listen to them if I wasn’t a shell, right?
Exactly. So for them, it’s an idiot ideological issue
No doubt when it should be one that’s just about pure public health
and we understand that it definitely is something that’s about it e ology it’s because the CDC’s
Refusal to clear up the confusion that they’re largely responsible for creating
By continuing to use the term ecig arete sand vaping and downplaying the THC aspect of it we had dr
Michael Siegel on the show on Monday evening, and he outlined how in the August 30th
guidelines an alert that the CDC sent out to health professionals all across the country and
Outlining all the things that they’re asking them to do in terms of helping them identify
What the cause is?
of this long illness
Nowhere in there is the CDC asking for urine or blood tests
So basically, they’re just saying go through this whole process and we’re just going to rely on what the teenagers
It’s insane. Yes, I
Mean no, no study. No research study with any kind of cloud would ever say yeah
We’re just gonna go with self-reporting data what people you know
We’re gonna ask people how many sodas they drink a week and we’re just gonna believe that it’s exactly accurate
researchers know that there’s memory problems
Some people have their own reasons for not wanting to tell the truth about their behaviors when it comes cannabis
In almost every single one of these states we’re talking about illegal activity
And as far as I can tell the CDC provides no guarantee
So the people they interview about anonymity or immunity from prosecution down the line
So why on God’s green earth would these people especially younger people under age who have parents that they’re probably?
More afraid of than the government why would they be honest with the CDC and even still most of the cases have been linked to?
black-market cannabis there’s something
Massively wrong with the CDC as demonstrated by what they’ve been doing over the last two weeks. They are
Willfully, denying the public information that could save their lives
Yeah, and that’s that’s really the the trick, isn’t it here? I’ve got the
severe pulmonary disease associated with using e-cigarettes products
Which is the official CDC health advisor? You can see that Michele. Yes
I see that and it’s strikingly different with the announcement made by the FDA on the same day
I believe where the FDA was very clear that it seems that most of them
If not, all of them are linked to cannabis products
Yeah, so just by I mean, how could the CDC say that THC vape pens or a cigarette?
I mean that isn’t that just a pure lie
No, it’s clearly propaganda because they know that people who use cannabis products even most
Cannabis products would never refer to them as cigarettes and I do see that in the announcement
They say a lot of different terms that people might use Eva goes e vapes whatever
But a lot of these people have different people who use cannabis, don’t call them a cigarettes at all
The emphasis on e-cigarettes is clearly an attempt to connect
these very
widespread stories to traditional over-the-counter
Ecig arrests so that the CDC can push its agenda, which I really hope when the CC
Director Redfield’s is before Congress on the twenty worth
That they asked him about this
They asked him why there’s a disconnect between what the FDA is saying with the CDC saying and what all the state health departments are
saying and what on God’s green earth the CDC was thinking yeah, and I mean they’re still doing it, right so
exactly here in the general background
I have an entire paragraph of the general background of e-cigarettes if they’re actually full-on calling it the electronic nicotine delivery systems
why even ends is even a discussion at all with this Health Alert is this is the poison this this is the the treachery of
The CDC right here perfectly for you to see
As they as they frame the entire issue as an ends issue
One when it’s not it’s about a legal black market THC products
I mean eyes as simple as that and so and as a dr
Siegel pointed out as you get through, you know here again young adults pregnant women. Tobacco products should not use e cigarettes e-cigarettes
containing nicotine have the potential to help why they’re even talking about that is for only one reason and that’s to
confound the issues and to and to
Indict cigarettes in the deaths of young people in the United States in order to create a hysteria
That ends up being where we are today
where you have President Trump who clearly is not as informed as he should be on this issue and
Coming out of the FDA
Today and let’s just go there is Trump administration
Combating epidemic of youth ethan direct use with the plan to clear market of unauthorized
Non-tobacco flavored a cigarette products and so FDA is going to well basically rush its compliance policy deprived
prioritize enforcement of pre market authorization requirements for non tobacco flavored ice or tourettes
I’m gonna just read the first three paragraphs here and this is just out today FDA it landed in my inbox
Just a little bit before 3:00 p.m. Eastern
today the Trump administration
announced that as a part of its ongoing work to tackle the epidemic of youth East cigarette use the FDA intends to finalize a
Compliance policy in the coming weeks that would prioritize the agency’s enforcement of the pre-market
authorization requirements for non tobacco flavored cigarettes
Including mint and menthol flavors clearing the mark and I this is the big thing here clearing the market
Unauthorized non-tobacco flavored cigarette products FDA plans to share more on the specific details of the plan and the inflammation
Implementation soon and here’s the quote
The Trump administration is making it clear that we intend to
Clear the market of flavored cigarettes to reverse the deeply concerning epidemic of youth
Cigarette use that is impacting children families schools and communities
Said Health and Human Services Secretary Alexes our quote. We will not stand
we will not stand idly by as these products become an
on-ramp to combustible cigarettes or nicotine addiction
for a generation of youth
So what do you think of that Michelle? Yeah, of course on rant lots of talk
No talk about the fact that most companies have already taken their flavored cigarettes most of them off out of the retail market anyway
And no mention of the fact that smoking rates are lowest or though the lowest ever upfront in all age groups
So if ISA grants are a gateway, you would think we would see that by now
But that’s a fact and facts don’t seem to matter for a lot of these people
It’s just either let’s do what feel feels good
Let’s do it pleases our donors or you know, let’s just grants and make a big name for ourselves
It’s a and it’s not just politicians
You can see it happening at the CDC and the FDA being opportunistic or what I would call predatory
So it’s regulatory predation on the part of the FDA sending out complaints to Jewell right now
Complaints by the way, they’re absolutely ridiculous that in any court of law would be immediately thrown out
But they know that Jule can’t fight it right now because of all these news stories
plus the regulatory threat plus the fact that they’re about to go to the FDA hat in hand and ask them to
Legalize their product to officially allow them to keep their products on the market. So, you know held over a
Barrel, of course, they’re not going to fight back and that’s what the CDC is doing. That’s what Trump is doing
That’s what all these people are doing. Some of them may be
Genuinely igner about the information but you know people like, dr
Siegel myself Clyde Bates so many others people who are actual scientists have been doing their damnedest to inform
The people who are making these decisions and they do not seem willing to listen
Yeah, no, that’s true. No doubt. I find it a little strange that
FDA’s press announcement here doesn’t mention the death
So the the means to an end has been achieved and now let’s not even talk about the mean so FDA doesn’t need to talk
About the means here in this issue, right?
So that whole scare is seems to be separate from this particular issue with with Trump. Although we know they’re connected. Of course
Yeah, absolutely connected
I mean
I do have to give credit credit to the FDA a little bit a little bit of credit that they are being
Slightly more careful than the CDC about just outright lying
Is obvious lies that the CDC is putting out that the FDA saying and I always mention cannabis
I think I don’t know why they’re not talking about the death now, but yes, I think
Potentially what’s happening is they don’t want to draw more attention to that story like you said because if we keep going back to that
story if the news keeps
Investigating that story we are going to have answers about what happened and it is not going to be the answers
We’ve got a lot of these people who are trying to ban e-cigarettes one thumb to me
Yeah, because in the end, of course, it has nothing to do with e-cigarettes
and then the other thing where
The health agencies are exposed including the FDA because they weren’t so clear the whole way through
It’s only recently that they become clear. So has there any been anybody that’s gotten sick or even potentially died?
You know after the CDC and FDA were already
communicating warnings to the public and if those warnings were confusing which they were or you know
Incorrect on purpose then there could be some exposure for them. Yeah. I hope that they would be held responsible so far
I haven’t seen the CDC or the FDA
I’m really held responsible for any of their behaviors, but this is so blatant malfeasance that I think it is
Absolutely time for someone to hold them accountable. I don’t expect
the upcoming congressional panel to do so
This is the same panel that held the jewel hearings which were just a platform for a couple of members to sound really good
So there can were already agree with them
Lawsuits some kind of an independent investigation I believe needs to be done
the CDC needs to be forced at this point to actually give the public their records because FOIA requests are
Just denied by the CDC because I assume because they don’t want people to actually see what they’ve been talking about their
Strategy because if they did then we would have a real case that I mean the CDC there are people there who to good jobs
Especially when it comes to infectious disease outbreaks these people sometimes put their lives on the line
Going in to try and figure out and help with outbreaks of infectious disease
This whole episode has really made me and I’m guessing quite a few other people
Question the value of the CDC when they’re putting so much money towards what as you said is essentially propaganda
That is not what they’re there for and if that’s what they’re going to do
Maybe we need to start sending our money to a different agency and get rid of this one
Yeah, well, it’s certainly true because when they raised the alarm
Nationally and got that first round national headlines back on the 22nd
I think of August 23rd of August you had CBC or CBS national news with a huge chyron
With CDC in the logo and the chyron and it said that the CDC does not know what brand it is
What substance it is?
What product it is CDC doesn’t know and and like so much so that you know, it’s like lie in plain sight, right?
So, you know if your national news organization going CDC doesn’t know anything, but yet they’re blaming you here
They’re raising the flag and blaming e-cigarettes, right? So that’s just I mean irresponsible just goes that’s just not even strong enough
I mean, I keep following back to the word treachery. It’s criminal
It’s criminal if this is saying they do not know
I mean, yes
we don’t conclusively know which products are causing all of the illnesses frankly because I
Believe II had my camera. I was dr. Michael Siegel who said it the diseases are so diverse
There’s absolutely no way they’re all caused by the same thing. Most of us doc. That was dr. Polo. So
On that very day that we did that coverage. Yes, so
Most of them appear to be lipoid pneumonia, which is caused by fat getting into the lungs
Most of the time and that would be explained by some kind of adulterated cannabis oil
The same saying they don’t know is an outright lie
Or they’re not doing their job coordinating with the states because by that point many of the states had already begun testing
Products from the patients and were very clear that they had a good idea
What type of product was involved with most of these cases? So the CDC saying we don’t know they didn’t do this?
They didn’t say anything like that when there was an outbreak at the same time of salmonella. They didn’t say
You know outbreak linked to food or even outbreak linked to chicken
They said backyard poultry, which is I’m buying a chicken from my neighbor down
The yard has been linked to a thousand cases of salmonella and several deaths news didn’t pick up on it
no one really cared but the CC got its, you know got exactly what it wanted by being as
Confusing as they possibly could bordering on criminal and I do really hope to take this seriously because this is you know,
Yes live there on the line when it comes to e-cigarettes because they can save smokers lives down the road who would otherwise die from
smoking-related diseases we are talking about acute death with it with with what’s been happening over the summer and the CDC has
Just let people lie down in the road and get run over which should be they should be held to account for this
Yeah, and you you would hope and wish that mainstream media would do a much better job
but we certainly know that if there’s one agency or if there’s one group of agencies that
Media pretty much takes everything, you know verbatim. It’s always Public Health
Sometimes depending on the administration and whatever’s going on at that particular moment in history
They may or may not fully take, you know, Defense Department or you know, the Attorney General, you know Justice Department
They may not always take that verbatim but rarely
Rarely does the media push back on public health?
Okay, my one hope with Trump getting involved is yeah. Sure. Do we need another?
uneducated ignorant voice in this already
Heated debate. No, we don’t but Trump getting involved might actually
Opportunistic journalists and convince them that this is worth looking into a little bit more critically than they’ve been doing in the past
that they can look into it and say
I wonder why a Republican is suddenly involved in those. Maybe this is not a great idea. So
Yeah, well maybe
Normally if we were to follow protocol here the media hates everything the president supports so this could very well have been a
Possible, you know good thing for Trump to launch a war on de Pitt because then the media would get behind it
But the problem is though is that either just the media is just so far in the bag
When it comes to being anti vaping and then you got Bloomberg, you know
like you said pumping in a hundred and sixty million dollars more than
The hundreds of millions of dollars that he’s already pumped in over the years and a lot of people don’t know this about Bloomberg
But he’s got this, you know, one of his groups has put together this side effort about two years ago
Nobody sees this but it was in it’s an effort to intimidate ad agencies
So your creative agencies your PR agencies your media planning of buying agencies or all you know getting shunned
By this group that is you know
Abstence ibly funded by Bloomberg in order to say within the ad agency and public relations world
Do not touch vaping or you are going to die. We are going
Nothing tells you that the that a certain group of people are completely
Motivated by morality and have no scientific basis for what they want then when they start excommunicating people and you know, I think dr
Michael Siegel said this I’m not sure about dr. Pilosa, but
Scientists are being excommunicated. They are being blocked out from the scientific discussion. They
Dr. Meriva
Same thing happen to her from New Zealand
They are being
Excommunicated and that’s what you do in a religion and I have no problem with people having a religion but not when it comes to
Science policy and regulatory policy that affects people’s real people’s lives
Right. Well, I think that the war on smoking in its original form
well is you know in peacetime is the only
representation of really
The exportation of liberty of just such a massive amount of people
So if you are liking if you liking yourself to be a progressive laughs to which leans and that
totalitarian see
And you want to control people? Well, one of the things if you’ve got to discuss for tobacco is to you know
Control that and and and take away people’s Liberty there and by taking away people’s Liberty with smoking they’re able to do that not based
On what is good for the smoker but really for the health of everybody else and once you cross that line
then all these other things can’t
Freedoms and liberties can be taken away because you don’t you no longer have the ability to prove that
I’m an individual and you have to first prove that what I’m doing is harming others
before you can take my Liberty away and I think that’s one of the reasons why they’re fighting so hard on this I there’s a
Whole bunch, but I think that’s one of them
They just got a sheer disgust for smokers and that means the sheer disgust for vapors. I think that they had planned on
breeding out
the whole group of adults motors it pretty much threw him under the bus and they figured they had
Their plan with this generation of young people and they got them under their thumb got that you know
Their the plan was going well and vaping undermined that
So I it was a bunch of things that I think that are going on from an ideological point of view
So I 100% agree with you i’m gonna toss this at you here too right now
And this is this is a wild one
But we did a piece a couple of years ago called dirty tactics and how climate change science poisoned vaping signs
Because all of the things that you just described right now and what the others on our show recently described are
Exactly what happened in the climate change debate years ago
idealogy took over
denunciations took over at you know
X nominations happen.we x nominate the scientists that are heretics and then we see how far that can go
What do you think about that? You know, you’re absolutely right even goes further back than climate scientists started with toxicology that and there’s
Something that’s been going on that i’ve been looking into a lot. It really started around it started with the early progressive era movement
So we’re talking about the late eighteen
1800s Early 1900s where science was used in so much as that, it was effective early progresses at that time
We were doing some good things like trying to get women the vote and get rid of slavery. I perform labor laws
They were very interested in science and medicine some of it pseudo scientific, of course like eugenics
But they use it so long as it was
Evidence for what they wanted when it doesn’t comply with what they want when it doesn’t
support their series
Then it’s just out the window and that happens with toxicology that happened with I’m not as familiar with climate science
and it’s definitely happening here and a lot of people have been talking about it happens with nutrition science as well if you look at
the debate around sodium where that has been contentious for people don’t even realize for about 30 or 40 years now and some
Very reputable scientists have been saying this appears to be an argument between religious factions at this point
not a discussion about the data so
Scientists science has been moving the ball about what is acceptable science for a long time, which is why with vaping
I mean, I think people who are
Tobacco harm reduction folks have been reaching out
We’ve been talking to the other side and saying we need to come together to at least find some consensus on what is acceptable evidence
What terms are we going to use this kind of thing? And
We’ve got nothing crickets on the other side
Mm-hmm. Let me I’ve got two big questions still a lot for you
And then you just let me know what how much more time we have with you after that
And I know our audience is really enjoying the conversation the chat staff here has been fantastic
so two big ones first, you mentioned that it’s importantly give FDA a bit of
Not a pat on the back, but let’s just say, you know, they came to their senses
They came to their senses
They came to their senses in time to where they haven’t they didn’t bury their reputation
Completely, so that is kind of actually startling and amazing and I think we can see a little bit of that in
In in the way that this statement came out from FDA
but I wanted I want to address that because I’m not gonna give FDA an
Opportunity to get sole off the hook here because they’re the ones that started this it was September
17th last year when the entire vaping policy which was moving forward in a rational
common-sense way
that then
commissioners go copley Gottlieb had set up path on the year before and
he came out and he said that it was an epidemic of
of youth use right an epidemic of teen vaping and so and not only did he say
Epidemic, but he also said it poses a clear and present danger
So those are the kinds of words
Well, those are definitely technical terms that a public health agency uses to take civil liberties away. Yes
absolutely and
Then you know what we saw was FDA got more power. They got more money
I think no you’re actually right FDA does not get to be let off the hook on this
Just only by the fact that they are not so
ballsy to think that they can get away at this point with straight line or the third being opportunistic and saying if we keep drawing
Attention to this one
Instance that we were wrong and where people died and it was definitely not linked to these cigarettes
It will hurt our efforts down the line
You’re even seeing Scott and got me of all people now on Twitter on social media talking about
how cannabis is the problem not e cigarettes because cannabis is unregulated or the states can’t regulate it appropriately which
At this point makes me think that Pfizer
on which
Gottlieb sits on the board Pfizer is potentially going to be getting into the legal cannabis market
So he wants to make sure that this entire other market is shut out
But the federal government has control over it so that it’s much easier for Pfizer to take over
I’m not sure but no if he doesn’t get off the hook
They were involved in the ramped up of the hysteria. They made way for everybody else. They made the public believe
That the hysterics were correct. And now now they’re backing off a little bit
I wouldn’t expect to see them back off for very long. So
That’s a good point. And and I think that’s accurate like right down to the core. So
Let’s see if we can dig in do some of the nooks and crannies here back in
Back in January when we had John it was towards the end of January for fear profiteers
What let’s talk about that for a minute because you had an extraordinary
ability to get in and see communications between
Some of these public health groups with state agencies
Health agencies and so forth and were able to map out and come to the conclusion and show that there was a collusion
Going on on these issues
So based on what you knew then you know, is that that same actual apparatus just you know
Totally going radioactive here
and if so
Have you been able to look into any of those networks or?
You know nooks and crannies and find anything of interest that you could share with us. So the short answer is yes
this is definitely what’s happening now is it’s clear coordination a lot of the public health department’s were just
Waiting praying even though it goes against their mission to want harm to come to the public
They’re praying for exactly what happened over this summer that they can use it
I don’t have any hard evidence right now because FOIA requests take a long time. They
except for Delaware credit to Delaware most state public health departments will
Delay your FOIA as long as they can when it comes with CDC
It’s usually a year and even then all you get is a denial that you would have to go to court to fight
So there is obvious collusion here
not just with the health department’s from the w-h-o on down to the local health department’s
but it also includes business people and you know, like I said
I do not expect the large a cigarette companies to fight a lot of this as many of you know
They’ve been pushing for the same thing at this point the flavor ban. I would be surprised if chill didn’t try and at least
Get their products available via online. That’s a huge portion of their market. That’s you know, mango is their most popular flavor
So I’d be surprised if they didn’t try and get some concession, but they are not going to fight an overall federal ban
especially if it gets rid of their competitors and you know
I don’t blame jewel for that that their company they’re fighting for their lives here
They’ve been fighting for their lives for more than a year now. So they’re just gonna do what they can to get theirs and
Unfortunately, if everybody else is gonna suffer with what’s going on
Okay, absolutely
And I just want to let everybody know that Michelle is kind enough
to let us know that she’s going to be able to stick with us until
about quarter after
Five, correct? Yes, great. So we’ve got her for a little bit while longer and
It’s hard for me to do both at the same time, but I will try to monitor the stream
So if there’s one or two questions that I see pop up from one of our viewers for Michelle
I’ll try to get that in in peppered in here in our a little bit left with Michelle
Mentioned prohibition which I briefly touched on but this is all of this. Tobacco control modern tobacco control stems from the same
Ideology that was bubbling around before prohibition during temperance, you know, it’s the same
Binary of people who smoked or bought that time people who drink are either
childlike savage victims or they are savage perpetrators this
What is is it is the demonization of fun
And I’m you know, maybe it’s a little hyperbolic
But if you look at the people who are fighting e-cigarettes versus the people who use them who believe that they save their lives
The one side is decidedly rich in white and the other side is it has a little bit more diversity early era progressives
Who were fighting for temperance?
But we are seeing the exact same arguments. They were making that Easter. So tobacco companies are
Taking advantage of the poor little savages and we need to protect them so that they because they can become good
Civilized members of society which to a lot of people people on that side are rational
Temperent you don’t engage in fun things
You’re not oversexed or using drugs you’re rational and that’s there’s something inherently racist about that
Value system that they’re trying to force onto everybody else
They can say nicotine is harmless because if they do that, then they would have to start making the argument
We just don’t want people to do it because it’s fun
So I’ve made an argument
Pretty pretty strong one over a couple of episodes. Let me throw it out at you. I think that there is a
discussed way I think the same people that hate America, there are
Anti-imperialism that think that America is tainted by being racist from what?
1619 forward they’re the same ones that are anti gaping anti
vehemently and that’s because they see that tobacco and
America would not have been born or at least not have succeeded without tobacco
And of course it was the tobacco trade which you know was you know, hugely draw a big driver of the slave trade
so tobacco cotton
So it’s definitely I think that there’s something wired into the anti-american thing. That’s part of why they hate nicotine. Yeah
I’m not sure about the end
Yeah, but I mean if you look at tobacco, it’s a great example because it was an indigenous product
It was something that indigenous people used for
Fun and religious practices and social practices and it was adopted by
Western European colonial settlers and then it was demonized
Alcohol was seen as a thing that immigrants use especially
Eastern European immigrants and saloons were a place where
laborers gathered to talk about things including politics and organized
Marijuana was a Mexican drug that you know
And alcohol was definitely seen as something that African Americans at the time that it caused them to do horrible things
and I think a lot of what we’re seeing this is and
this is the first time I’ve thought of this and I’m not sure if it’s just way over the top but
This is the new with the e-cigarette stuff. This is the new kill the Indian save the man
If you know what I’m talking about, that’s when they ripped
Indigenous children away from there and this this was that progressive policy meant to help the indigenous people by force
assimilating them by taking away children and putting them into boarding schools and forcing them to speak English forcing them to dress like
colonial settlers and not practice their neo culture and that’s what we’re getting now with these cigarettes is that progressives are trying to
Save us they’re trying to save people who use e-cigarettes whether they like it or not
Either you join with them or you leave their society because that’s someone who uses
No matter how harmless it is is just not acceptable in their
Utopian ideal and that’s very problematic and I’m shocked that more people aren’t talking about it
Well, I mean it’s because you know, it’s tough to get your head around, you know, it’s very difficult for people to pin down
what the progressives think right because
And there they are very much impacted by you know, American philosopher William James
So you’ve got pragmatism, you know involved there. So that means you know, you can take a bunch of different positions on either side
In the in the goal of being pragmatic on issues and that really does confuse thing
I mean they are the ones that redefined classical liberalism into liberal, right?
They stole the word liberal anything
they build their entirety ology on stealing language and co-opting it and then
Keeping the word but making it
You know something different and if it still sound if it still got the same thing
In terms of a definition they use that to write, you know
It’s like the word freedom freedom to a progressive doesn’t mean at all the same thing as freedom
It does to somebody who’s a classical liberal their freedom
And this will go to what you’re discussing their freedom is Russo Ian’s freedom
And so John Jack Russo’s concept of freedom is one
so how do you balance the two issues one of authority and one of freedom because
Complete freedom means absolutely. No authority. You can do whatever you want. Nobody can tell you what to do
that’s what freedom is and
then authority of course is the other side of that coin and you need it to balance that off and almost every single
Discussion from ancient, you know ancient Greece to through every political organization
You can think of its that trying to split the baby their art and you can find that way to put freedom and authority together
Jean-jacques. Rousseau was like die hard for freedom exactly where there is no zero
Constraints so how do you score that and he squared that by saying that freedom and authority are
Two sides of the exact same coin. They’re the exact same thing. And so you can you you have complete freedom
when you live in a world of
constraints of authority that you have
Accepted yourself like that you you internalized yourself
So you are not actually being constrained. If you believe that that self control that you’re exercising is
the true
Example of virtue. Yes. So when I think that there are no chains on you
You’re free that that’s right
And everyone says with Rousseau, he makes that all if thing they said everyone’s you know
Born free and lives Cheng’s what he actually he wasn’t talking about slaves
he was actually talking about his concept of freedom and authority together that if you are living in the right proper way you
You are you are chained yourself you are in control of your own chains, and so the idea here
Is that is that if you go through this process this inner process of discovering what that is
Then and fully understanding it then you’ll then you look at the people around you and you expect them to go through the same
rational process of
Coming through that inner self looking up without virtue and of course because the world is supposed to be in harmony
That’s the that’s the understanding the progressive understanding of the harmony of the world
And because the world supposed to be in harmony two people should come to the same
Conclusion of what virtue is and have that self control and so they try to mitigate
They try to mitigate it with other people to get you in that same spot so they can feel that’s good
But when you finally realize that that person or a group of people that are living with you doom are defective
Mm-hmm. They have a defective
Ability to look internally and come up with that concept of virtue. That’s the same as yours
Then once they deem you defective you’re toast and that’s what’s happening here
Absolutely. Yeah, if you don’t agree with them, you’re either too stupid uneducated
You are you have some other motive at heart. Otherwise you would agree with them. It is circular
Logic here. And I mean I keep going back when you were talking about freedom freedom
so long as you you’re free to choose what I want you to choose I
reminds me of a fast and furious line where someone offers a beer and they say you can have whatever you want as long as
It’s Corona. That’s 100 percent. What and I I don’t I want to be clear here. I am NOT conservative. I’m not a Republican
I am liberal on a lot of my views but well
That’s what that’s the offer that progressives are making to smoker’s right now like you do whatever you want as long as you quit using
pharmaceutical nicotine replacement therapy
You’re free to make it I tell you to make yeah, that’s exactly well
And we’ll see what they want to do is they don’t want
to tell you right that’s why they love the kids because they bring up the kids and
The kids grow up and they just, you know envelop
the virtue
Process the thinking process and so then that would they prefer to not tell you that’s what they’d actually prefer because they want each
Person to get there on their own, you know, so that’s the key thing now
Just got to do a quick little promo, which is great
the folks over at vapin magazine have done a
Amber Meyer wrote a great story on red watch and this episode is out on
Shelves or however, they do that
I don’t get a lot of vaping magazines you imagine that I don’t get any
So I know these got a lot of vape stores. So it’s a conversation with Brent Stafford by amber Meyer and it’s reg watch and
It was a good piece douve into some of our coverage over the last year which is which has been fantastic
We discussed our health canada interviews with director general. James Van Loon. We discussed the issue around reg watch’s
breaking and
Releasing publishing the leaked document from dr. David Hammond from the University of Waterloo and we discussed that and oh, yeah
I guess I should have pushed the button here. Sorry so you could see that and
Yeah, and the actual colonialism stuff we managed to get in there at the end
And in fact, actually what I well I didn’t say and you added which was great
Michelle was the fact that you know, they’re kind of mad because
because the white man took
The Indians drug of peace and we turned it into a drug of war
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah totally and
Yeah, so that’s great guys
So I mean obviously there are folks over here at vape in have done a great job
with covering us here at reg watch and I want to make sure that you know that that’s out there and to go take a
Look in and one last thing and we’ll get back to you
Michelle Minton from the competitive competitive enterprise institute is just an
Absolute total get your butt over to our support microsite support dot regulator watch calm
We don’t beg for money, but I’m gonna start shaming you. I’m going to start using tactics of the
Progressives there’s only two viewers
That have signed up to support watch
In the last year – guys. Do you want it to only be the New York Times? They’re clearly no good
I mean independent reporters because the the
Journalism business right now isn’t doing its job
Absolutely, and so we need your help
So support dot regulator if you’re in the u.s
When you go there, it’ll be US dollars if you’re can anything to go there
It’s good and same with pound sterling and your US you can you can choose one-time support monthly support
That would be great. We’re trying to take do the long tail here guys
so we’ve got a lot of viewers hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of thousands and people watch our stuff and
Two of you have decided to support the show
So that’s we’re gonna start shaming now. I’m just gonna start using progressive tactics. That’s the only thing I can think of Michele
Yeah, no
I’m with you
I I have several patreon is going all at once because I value those those
Independent voices so much that aren’t connected with you know, the thing I wrote about with fear profiteers, which was this an enormous
Just Leviathan and it’s difficult once you get into it to get out of it because look what happens
You just get ostracized you’re ridiculed you are ignored
So I personally have so much appreciation for the people who choose to go outside of whatever the Leviathan is whether it’s journalism
Public Health or
Hollywood and to do their own thing because those are the only people that are worth damn honestly at this point
they’re the only ones who are
independent voices actually looking at
What’s going on in the world and speaking their online instead of just a parrot for somebody else with a lot of money?
So what can we do?
So I guess we’re wrapping up in our last ten minutes here or and I did promise I would take a look at questions
So I I should have done that. Let me ask you a question then. I’ll look for questions
What okay
so two questions
What the hell could we do about CDC and and continuing to call things, you know e cigarettes
Is there anything that can be done about that?
And then if you can talk a bit about the president, I mean once the first lady
Has jumped in like she has I mean, I don’t know. I mean, this is all hope law
That is Melania an addiction specialist. Maybe she is. I don’t know
Maybe she’s it’s great to have her voice in now at this point what?
Vapors need to be doing is honestly they’ve been doing a great job. They have been I’ve watched it
you know, I talked to thousands of people every week and
They have been going to the ends of the earth to talk to people who don’t they explain things to them?
Talk to their members of Congress
Talk to reporters
You keep doing that. You keep stick with vaping do not go back to smoking no matter what happens
The community, you know, this is like the Pandora’s box
The cap doesn’t go back in the bag if a thing is going to be around
It’s just a matter of can if the government bans it. Can we still get access to these products in a safe way?
I’m assuming because the vaping community community is so cohesive and friendly and
Filled with smart people that they will figure out a way to do this this calls what’s happening right now
Calls for massive organization taking another thing from the progressives, you know, the old progressive tactics
people need to actually get out of their homes get on Twitter at this point because as much as I wish
facts arguments emotion people’s real stories mattered
They don’t seem to you so people we need to actually make this problem for the regulators
Make this a problem for the members of Congress, you know
Lay down in front of state houses lay down in front of the CDC until they least
Acknowledge get some attention I get so that the New York Times can get refused to cover this story
Right, so, okay. So let me let me make you just made an excellent excellent suggestion
Let me paint that picture properly now for our viewers because you are right. They don’t get it
Well, hold on half of our viewers are probably progresses, right?
so because the only thing that that’s the one thing that is always an interesting thing is that the only thing that makes a vaper
Know and other vapors that you maybe once a smoker
whereas they’re generally the overall thing here is that they should be drawn from a wide spectrum of
Political side. So for those that are vapors that are familiar with the tactics
You’ve got a you’ve got it you are the ones that really actually have to lead because it’s likely you are the one that are
Preventing this action from happening because you’re suffering from a cognitive
Dissonance because on every other issue that you’re standing beside that your friends are they they’re you know
Like if you’re pro climate change you, you know, you’re not likely to use those tactics that you know
So well for vaping just because you’re gonna suffer a cognitive dissonance. I
Know know I’ve seen it with progressive vapors people. They are doing their hardest
They are not sitting idly by the side, but no, right but they’re not but they’re not lying down on the White House lawn
That’s right. Yes, they’re not walking with the reaper. They’re not walking with the reaper
Masks, they’re not doing they’re not doing the strongest activism tactics that needs to disrupt traffic that needs these
People into a car getting everybody into a car together
rallying people together and saying we are getting off of our computers right now and I
Hold myself accountable for this too because I haven’t you know
I’ve mentioned this on Twitter and I’ll talk about it too often
My husband has had oral cancer twice now started when he was 27 years old
He was never smoker
But that’s exactly the kind of cancer you get from smoking and I don’t ever want to see anybody suffer with a disease like that
And E cigarettes are the exact thing that could help people. I’ve so many of my friends have quit
Multi-decade smoking habits, they feel great. They tell me all the time. It’s it
it’s really time for us all to just get out from behind the computer and
But I’m you know, my mother always said they can’t ignore you. It’s Pope you leave like if you get in their faces
They have to pay attention to you
So I think at this point that’s what we need to start doing so that they can’t ignore us and honestly
CDC can’t ignore us all they want but if news reporters start picking up on it
Then then they’re gonna have to get attention to it
one of the things I’ve been trying to do over the last several lives is collect people’s quit stories and in particular, I’ve been very
focused on trying to get people who are
Democrats or liberals progressive people who call themselves progressives to talk about how they quit smoking
What type of a pay is a flavor and how this whole conversation has made them feel about their?
presentation in government whether state or federal so that what I can do with pictures and names in hand is take it to their
Representatives because I understand that you know papers are all over the country of all political stripe
They can’t exactly show up at a state, you know show up at the houses of Congress every week
But I’m there every week and if I can have these enhance a book this is your constituents
This is one of yours. They voted for you. They will have to pay attention to that a little bit
Well, it sounds like we should have had the industry should have had you under a lobbying contract a long time
Oh, if you ask a lot of the anti tobacco people I and under what my whole life I guess
I don’t know. I’d be getting a lot more money. I’ll say that if I did something like that
So let me paint this picture. You’ve got two hundred vapors
In a state capital small state capital they show up on the on the lawn and each of them has like a little cardboard
headstone that says, you know died of smoking and then lie on the ground and stick the headstone up and
you know, I have a sea of
Headstones and you know and have that planned out properly to let the media know that it’s going to be there
It’s a great picture cup two hundred of a man. That’d be huge. Right and you’re like you do that stuff like that
That’s the stuff that gets
Absolutely and not to steal money from your show from the people who would potentially give you a show
But I would give money to that patreon to organize buses
Airplane tickets whatever it is to get everybody in the same place with those headstones
To make a statement. There are so many more than 200 in any given area
Personally at this point if there’s gonna be a protest anywhere I will drive up to six hours to get to it
We all really need to
pitch in and I know I’m
preaching to the choir at this point I’m saying we need to pitch in so many people have been doing like I said,
Everything they possibly can think of on this issue, but we need to organize and you know
I’m not sure which organization it is that can provide that cohesiveness that we so desperately need I
Saw is great had the vapors Association. They’re great, but we really need to start working together and making making our voices
Heard in an ignoring way. I totally agree, Michelle
Well, look I want to thank you everybody we had this is a Michelle Minton senior fellow from the competitive enterprise
Institute in Washington DC
Giving us some live update on what’s happening today as Trump launched his war on BAE ping
Thanks again, Michelle and do keep us posted on what you’re doing next
Absolutely. Talk to you soon. All right. Thanks a lot. And thanks everybody for tuning in. Thanks for tuning


  1. Trump is all about the money. So, he's likely been made aware of the loss of kickbacks from big tobacco when people quit smoking.

  2. So they rather you smoke get ill and have to spend money for Big Pharma and stuff there pockets. When it comes time to vote I will place my vote for someone that stands for vaping.

  3. I voted for trump and was going to do it again, but now how can I, he is buying into this fake news, and is making a communist type of response to a problem in our great nation.

  4. How can we hold these agencies legally accountable for their criminal deletion of facts which they know but are not using to stop harm happening to others?

  5. I think anyone in government that back the flavor ban should be labeled a murderer the first time someone the vaped and went back to smoking died because of this

  6. No toxicology by the CDC for these cases? I and millions of ex- smokers have never reported a problem. Who calls them e- cigarettes anymore? Kids won't lie that they vaped illegal Cannabis or nic cut with who knows what? No toxicology in the CDC's report for health professionals? They knew what was happening. Nic vapors knew. This seems libelous. IMHO

  7. It is now clear that Trump is a clear and present danger to the health of US citizens (in breach of his oath of office), and is only governed by (admittedly well concealed) bribes. As such,he has effectively renounced the right to the title, respect, and obedience owed to the POTUS, and by being the cause of more deaths than the attacks 18 years ago, has instead made himself public enemy number one.
    What to do when Trump has self identified as a terrorist?
    Arrest him, try himm, and jail him – along with all those who have colluded to cause all these deaths from cancer.
    US citizens have the right to bear arms, and the most pusuasive argument used to pass that amendment was that it would dissuade, and the last resort allow the citizens to remove, tyranical forms of government..
    Sadly, it now looks as if it is time to use that right.

  8. Not trying to watch more lies come outta Chump's mouth! Didn't vote for his worthless lying ass anyways! "Make America great again" "I'm here for the people" "fake news" "democrats are corrupt and liars" This whole fkn system has been corrupt for decades! GTFOH! CDC & FDA are obviously corrupt as well and not fooling anyone! #willienelson2020

  9. Under statement of the day this sucks!!! This is not the right move at all!!! Not to sound self interested but I wunder how this will effect us in Canada? Keep fighting for your right to vape my American friends!

  10. There has to be a demand for tests done on ALL the people that are having lung issues, and the people that died, and find out if there was THC, or vit E in their system.

  11. and why the heck do they still allow smoking cigarettes when 1,300 people die each day from smoking related diseases?? Also why do they allow fruity flavored alcohol?

  12. Playing Devil's advocate, I totally understand the argument that we might not know the long-term damage of vaping – most smokers don't get sick in the first decade.

    But,we have science showing it's at least somewhat less harmful, if not much. Not funded by BT or BP.

    When you're not even looking at the facts, and only basing policy on hysteria and propaganda… For $$$…

    Single-issue voters are more than enough to ensure he isn't re-elected. I hope he fixes this.

  13. They are against Vaping even though Tobacco is one of the most environmentally harmful crops on teh planet, The use of tobacco really does need to be wiped out

  14. Isn't Juul big tobacco? Big tobacco prefers that we smoke and it makes them more money than vaping. Isn't it possible that Juul was purposefully marketed at children to make vaping "bad"? Even if only 35% of Juul is owned by big tobacco, it still means that a full 35% isn't really pro vaping.

  15. I am from UK and I can't believe this is happening in this day and age. Even worse, as trump would say the greatest country in the world, land of the free. What a laugh. Its crazy, more will die and get ill on the black market.
    U didn't worry about ur kids when u sold out to the tobacco companies in 1998, did u.
    Who sang that some, money talks.

  16. Follow the $. This is likely just a way to reboot and control the small business vaping industry. Ban flavored e-liquids, putting the small & medium sized companies out of business, then in 12-18 months when the science is irrefutable the ban will be lifted. By that time the big drug or tobacco companies, who came late to the party, will be the only ones who can afford to quickly get products to market and pass any new stringent production quality controls. Also, having a small number of large companies in the vaping industry will make it easier for federal & state governments to regulate, and most importantly, extract high tax revenues at the rate that they were accustomed to from tobacco products.

  17. I'm 69 years old and been vapeing for 8 years with NO TROUBLE. Vapeing has been the best I found in years. Everyone knows how bad smoking is, why haven't banned smoking? Big tobacco is running CDC, FDA, and our government! I don't know why they are lying and not telling everyone what is REALLY causing the problem? Someone needs to SUE the CDC and the FDA!

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