Episode 02: Proof of Kitties

Episode 02: Proof of Kitties

(Magical crypto)
The best thing to do is simply to HODL
What’s a young pony to do in a sea of shady icos?
A lion’s courage can light up even the darkest of shadows
Unlike the corporate suits, the whalepanda is wise
A Chikun dreams about dreams about the moon, while soaring in the skies
As Bitcoin sees new all-time highs
(Magical crypto)
All around ya see big block heads
(Magical crypto)
The best thing to do is simply to HODL
We’ll always buy the dip
And we’ll always be the best of friends!
And then… He told them he was Monero Jesus
[Laughs] Good one
Okay guys, good morning!
Good evening for some of us
So here we have Bruce Lee’s long-lost son: Charlie
Samson, who is like one of the Giorgio Armani of crypto
And the real crypto expert from South Africa, Ricardo
The first video had really good reviews, I was actually pleasantly surprised by it,
Not too many trolls
I had an entire agenda and then Charlie dropped the bomb yesterday
With the announcement that he didn’t have any more Litecoins, that he had sold all his Litecoins
So we discussed a bit yesterday
And apparently, half of people like it, half of people don’t
Mostly the traders are the ones that don’t like the idea of a developer not having any stake in it anymore
You want to elaborate on the entire story, Charlie?
From what I can tell, the people who hated it were traders
They wanted Litecoin’s price to go up and make some money so
So the fact that I don’t own any, means that I don’t believe in the project
And that the future is bleak, that’s what they think
So do you believe in the project?
Yeah, Litecoin is my baby
I want it to succeed more than anyone else in this world, so
It doesn’t matter if I don’t hold any Litecoin, I’m still fully invested in it, so
The magazine, or publication, or whatever, that said that you sold your Litecoins to avoid being investigated for Insider trading
I thought that was hilarious
Well, yeah there’s one tweet that said that the reasons why I sold it it’s because Coinbase is investigating me for insider trading
Or at least implied that, that’s pretty stupid
But now I mean, I did sell it for conflict of interest reasons
The fact that I own Litecoin is not actually good, it’s actually not a conflict, right
The conflict is because I tweet so much
And whenever I tweet, because I have like 613K followers, that can move the price
I could buy Litecoin before I make an announcement, good news,
Or sell Litecoin before I make an announcement of bad news
And profit like a lot from this, so I kinda just decided that I don’t want to have to think about
Not tweeting something because it could look bad
So I decided that I don’t need the Litecoin, I don’t need to make money from Litecoin
I’ve made enough, and I’m still gonna work on it
So, it doesn’t matter
Yeah but at the same time, when you say that you’ve made enough, that made it sound like
“Oh, I’ve dumped on the top so yeah bye guys, thank you”
It’s hard to dump on the top, because everything is at the top right now
So everybody can dump at the top right now
This is definitively not the top of Litecoin, so
Probably like two years later people will be like,
Saying like: “that’s stupid of me for dumping at —what? $300 dollars?”
So, we’ll see
I’ve got friends who bought Bitcoin at like $2 dollars
And sold pretty much everything at, when we broke $200
So I don’t think that fundamentally taking profit is bad
Because you can always get back in later on if you want to take more profit
If that’s your goal
I don’t think you’ll kick yourself ever for selling Litecoin and taking profit
No, I mean, for me if Litecoin succeeds, I’d be so proud of it
And I’ve dedicated my life to it
It’s something I’ve created and it doesn’t matter taking that much if I make more money from it
I wouldn’t be like “oh I’m sad that I’ve sold Litecoin”
I mean, I’ve made enough, I’m happy with what I have
You should have just traded, so, Tony can show Litecoin and you can show Monero
-Yeah, Charlie, just think about it
You sold your Litecoin for Monero, just be honest
So you tell me good things about Monero
Like you tell some good news the day before and I’ll buy Monero
And then I tell you about Litecoin and then you buy Litecoin
Perfect, and of course, and there’s no conflict cause you know, it’s like we’re just friends, we’re not family
Yeah and according to Roger, insider trading is perfectly legal so we’re good
Yeah, one thing though, would you ever consider doing the same thing Ricardo?
I didn’t believe in Monero at the beginning
The code base had almost no comments, we didn’t really know what we were doing
It was a mess, but I knew that because it was a code base it’s wasn’t based on Bitcoin
And it had these really innovative privacy features that it would pump
If I’m being honest, like that was my initial interest
Was like “Hey, I’m gonna mine a bunch of this and I’m gonna sell it”
And then I sold it on Poloniex and met Paul instead
And so I sold a massive portion and took fantastic profits
And I’m not unhappy about that
I think It was a good move at the time
Because obviously I had no idea that Monero had a greater value
Subsequent to that, I’ve obviously fallen in love with Monero, and I love the community, I love the work that we’re doing
I think that Monero a positive benefit for mankind
But I definitively I’m also, there’s this part of me that’s just super pragmatic
It always has been, and so I have a selling plan
When I bought Litecoin, I had a selling plan
When I bought Bitcoin I had a selling plan
With Monero, I’ve got a selling plan
And I sold 5-10% every time the price doubles from the previous point where I sold
And I’ve stuck with that
So it means that my stash of Monero is not like massive,
It never has been, I’ve always worked on Monero
Because I found it interesting
I don’t think I’ll ever exit completely because
Even with scams that I’ve bought into
And taken profit, I’ve always maintained just a little bit at the end, or left a little bit at the end
It’s like a HODL portion
Just in case that scam happens to pump in the future
So i”ll always have a portion of Monero
It’s just never gonna be massive stash, because I don’t need to
Like Charlie, in many ways, Monero is my baby
I’ve paid for stuff out of pocket for years
I’ve worked on it constantly, dealing with trolls and all of that
And I’ve got that love for any sort of tiny community
And appreciation in price is nice but it’s not necessary
You know, I appreciate the fact that there are people in the community that occasionally just say Thanks
And that’s enough for me
I like your idea of selling 5-10% of everything when it doubles
And I’m also holding my scams and I’m also holding Bitcoin, Litecoin, and some Monero
So yeah I think that’s a good idea
So moving on to the next subject
There has been a lot of talk about “Proof of work”
How it’s been wasteful
How is Bitcoin’s proof of work, Bitcoin mining is using as much energy as Denmark
The 2 issues I have with these arguments about proof of work being a waste
The first is that, it’s often presented without an alternative
Or when they do present an alternative, it’s proof of stake
And proof of stake, even if you can do all sorts of magical things there
It’s not as robust as proof of work
We don’t have an alternative to proof of work
There’s interesting stuff, like bringing in a research, like Bran Cohen’s Proof of Space and time but
That still weights off, in terms of really being able to analyze it’s robustness
You can make all sorts of theoretical claims but in terms of actual probable robustness, nothing beats proof of work
And so without an alternative, what are we supposed to do?
Just like pull the plug and go “oh you know, we think it might wasteful”
The second issue that I have is: The comparison is often made to Visa or Mastercard or whatever
Or paypal, and then they say like “oh you know, Visa operates in data centers and that’s all”
And Bitcoin’s so much more wasteful
But didn’t they forget about all these other elements that are part of the Visa ecosystem
The ability to swipe a credit card, the production of wasteful credit cards that have expiry dates
You know you throw a piece of plastic in the trash, and it’s going to hold off for five hundred years
The bank manager that has drive his car from and to work
The production of the machines you swipe on
Or where you put your card or tap or whatever
All the hardware, the hardware specialist
That is required for the banks to operate
These are like transaction switches, all of these stuff
These are all like crazy things that are part of that process, but are largely ignored when it comes to
“Proof of work is wasteful” you know and those are two major concerns
I have with the argument the lack of an alternative and the fact that it’s only analyzing one small part of the system
Yeah, it’s easy to do a rough calculation
On the back of a napkin and say “Bitcoin burns this much power, it’s wasteful”
It’s much harder to calculate all those things you said
All the fragmented costs that are kind of hidden and hard to find
But I think proof of work is reliable and it’s the only real way we have to secure a digital currency in any
Reliable manner and in a fair manner at this time,
But there’s actually a Satoshi quote that addressed this issue
I will read it to you guys.
It was about the same thing
It’s like Bitcoin talk in 2010
So he said “it’s the same situation as gold and gold mining
The marginal cost of gold mining tends to stay near the price of gold gold mining is a waste
But that waste is far less than the utility of having gold available as a medium of exchange
I think the case will be the same for Bitcoin
The utility of the exchanges made possible by Bitcoin
Will far exceed the cost of electricity use
Therefore not having Bitcoin would be the net waste, so basically there would be
An opportunity cost to not having Bitcoin
To not being able to make these insensible transactions
Or not having a reliable store of value and
Think that is the real cost that we would have if there was no Bitcoin
It’s easy to say something wastes energy.
You could just as easily say internet wastes energy, right?
People just use it to watch cat videos
But there are far more use cases than just that
From my point of view, the cost of the electricity is what is actually providing the security
For the network, right? Security for the coin
In order to attack the coin you—the attacker— would have to match the network Hash rate,
So the network electricity used by the network to attack it,
So in some sense, this is what’s providing the value of this decentralized network, and I guess you can mean it’s considered
This is like the intrinsic value of a Bitcoin or like any cryptocurrency in general
Just or a proof-of-work coins, right?
This is actually what’s providing value
Yeah, and another thing
Together with all those articles about how Bitcoin was or bitcoin mining is wasteful
There is also a positive narrative that it allows
Electricity companies and miners to invest in green energy
I know for example that in New Zealand there are a couple of hydro dams
That were not being used and now some miners are looking into using that
As a source of a cheap electricity for mining
So it can also have a very positive effect on the producing electricity itself
Yeah, and I know a lot in China that actually
Purchased an abandoned hydroelectric plant and like fixed it up, and they’re using that
To cover their atrocity, because they’re miners,
They’re obviously profit-motivated
Why should they be paying more electricity when they can reduce their costs?
Yeah, so miners always want to maximize profits and minimize their cost
And it also happens to be that hydroelectric power is the cheapest power available
So most mining is powered by green energy
And there’s also energy arbitrage so a lot of miners are just using
Available power that would have just gone to waste or not been used so
In China there’s a small town
They had like a massive mining operation there, but it used to be like a
Steel mill so that consumes a lot of electricity
But all the steel mills were shut down actually so there’s an abundance of power and
No use for it, so they kind of switched to mining.
How is this weird thing, where storing it is not so easy
You can store it in batteries, but that’s like not particularly efficient
And so there’s a limited amount that can be stored
So you know where there’s additional
Electricity being produced that just gets wasted.
It’s like well “we have this like extra electricity units, just throw it away
Yeah, okay, so on to the next topic: Kitties
Specifically cryptokitties
It was actually very interesting.
It’s like already a couple of weeks ago that it was so popular, but it came out
It’s a typical crypto thing.
It’s a meme so everyone just starts going crazy for it and it blows up
Yeah in a couple of days
So basically the idea behind it is that you can breed different cats with special characteristics and
They can create unique cats and those can have other characteristics, and they can get more unique yeah
So you can have very expensive cats because there was a marketplace
But the thing about it was that every time you breed a kitty or do something
It’s another transaction on Ethereum blockchain
At one point, it was like two or three dollars per thing that you did with your cat
So this actually showed that blockchains don’t scale very well and
That it’s a huge waste of space to have millions of cats transactions on stored on the ledger, and yeah
It doesn’t make much sense to have that stored forever
Every cat transaction stored forever on the blockchain
So maybe this is more something for like side chains or something like that. Are you guys thinking about?
Yeah, I mean, people always want to put all the all the transaction amount up watching, but they don’t realize that
The cost is someone has to pay for it, right?
You’re storing this on a global decentralized ledger for the rest of time
And you really need to store these transactions on the main chain
The answer is no, you don’t need to store these crypto-kitties transactions on the main chain
That’s secured—well, at least for Bitcoin, that’s like
That’s uncensored board, and will be stored for the for the
For all time, right? So yeah
These things probably go on better go on like a side chain or lightning Network or stuff like that so
Some people would argue with you Charlie.
They’d say “no, it’s gotta be on the main chain, along with the coffee and you know everything”
I mean, there’s—my point of view is that
There will be multiple chains, right?
So Litecoin can help handle the transaction volume and other chains can help
-So you wanna take a few other cats?
-Eventually yeah, I’ll take a few cats
Alright, you’re a life saver
Yeah, but I mean people don’t realize like if there’s a
There’s a trade off, right? You can’t —there’s no such thing as a free lunch
You can’t just store these things for cheap forever.
-Yeah, and plus we just talked about the power
I think the other thing that crypto kitties has demonstrated
Is that on-chain scaling is extremely hard—if not impossible
And the biggest problem is that all of the decentralized digital currencies right now
That we’d all struggle with that level of traffic and transaction volume
No one’s ready for it and so scaling prematurity by just ramping up block sizes
Unfortunately it might buy you some time, but it doesn’t mean that you’re going to be ready for that level of volume
On the other hand, you have the whole dag and you know Spectre and all those sort of technologies, which are really interesting
But unfortunately in their current form and stuff like IOTA
You’ve got lots of centralization, so you know we put those aside, and we focus on the stuff that’s properly decentralized
The handful of cryptocurrencies that are, like honestly
No one is ready for that that level of use and definitely not for mainstream adoption use
It actually also brought up another interesting subject, because
The owner of a small contract can just pause it
And then you lose all your—or like you can’t do anything with your kitties anymore
People thought “Oh, I got—I bought my kitty now, I have my kitty now
But if the owner of the smart contract just pauses the game
No, I can do anything with it anymore, so the people are thinking it’s decentralized, but at the same time
It’s completely centralized.
It is, and it’s owner can also change like the attributes, right?
If you have a rare attribute,
They can just change it to something really stupid
And then your cat won’t be worth anything anymore
And they probably wouldn’t but they—I mean, just that— it’s centralized.
I mean, it’s a gimmick, right? Is this still popular today?
I haven’t really paid much attention to it
Ell by the time this show is coming out, probably nothing more anyway
No, I think like the hype is over. It was like two three days of really insane hype
And it was everywhere on every newspaper and every website and
That’s gone, so yeah, but it’s a good thing to have that because it shows
Very clearly, at least I think, it shows very clearly blockchains don’t scale and people need to start understanding that so they stop crying for
Bigger blocks and
Solutions that go nowhere because that is just one gap and
If Ethereum delivers on the promise of like hundreds of thousands of depths, you know that’s like
A thousand times of this, the scaling problems that they’re having with the crypto kitties
Yeah, I mean, I always go back to your question like, do you really need decentralized applications?
I mean for certain applications, maybe but like for crypto kitties if Google is running the
App platform that you can write to and right now the crypto Kitty app for it
It’s centralized it runs fine and
Like transaction TPS is really high, who cares? Right? Who really needs it to be decentralized?
For that application, so I mean I think Ethereum is great
It’s doing something that very interesting
But in the end it, would have it would start to cost a lot of money for transactions because it’s a decentralized
World computer, right so
And not many applications will really need that but what if I’m really concerned about the government stealing my crypto kitties
Then you pay for it
Okay, yeah well I think
The most important thing to take away from this is that blockchains don’t scale until the next point
The markets are going crazy, Litecoin making new highs, Monero making new highs
But Bitcoin obviously, we have never seen such an insane demand not just
Bithump, for example they said that there’s like 100,000 signups per new signups per day
Bittrex recently said that they have 500,000 concurrent users
Which is crazy if you think about like half a million users at the same time online or on a crypto exchange
We also seen a lot more
Mainstream media coverage
Like CNBC, but my main issue with it is that these
Mainstream media are always
Picking experts which aren’t really experts or like even quite the opposite of experts
Is there a way to educate the mainstream media or the people more like this?
I think they look for these guys just for the shock value
Because they’re gonna say crazy stuff and crazy stuff will get them ratings so for a lot of these publications
Or shows they don’t really care about the truth
I mean it doesn’t take a lot of effort to do a little bit of due diligence and
Just looking in fact check these guys, but they don’t even do that.
They just kind of nod along “so yeah, this is great, thanks for coming on”
For some reason I don’t know what it is, but mainstream media tends to gravitate towards like fund managers
I remember a while ago like a year and a half ago.
There was an article on Monero
They literally spoke to nobody in the Monero community
And they went and interviewed like Peter from Waffle Capital and
John from this hedge fund and they spoke to them about Monero
And I’m like, these people are not qualified to give an opinion on
Monero at least— not just by themselves
It should be presented as maybe some sort of balancing factor along with
The Monero community or people for who have actually built stuff on Monero
People who have written code that is in use today, like let’s balance it out
Let’s talk to both people and then present that but for some reason they gravitate towards us
And I keep seeing it over and over and over again
The people who write books and the people who run hedge funds and
The BC’s and that is so weird yeah, and talking about books
There’s people writing books about Bitcoin and Blockchain that I’ve never even heard about
I was at the Riga conference and I got a book from a Belgian guy
And there aren’t a lot of Belgians in Bitcoin yet,
I never heard of the guy, and he wrote like an entire book about it
He gave it to me. It was nice of him, but if I never heard about you
I am in Bitcoin already quite a while, then I immediately question the quality of your work
I mean I didn’t read it yet, it might be good
But if you start inviting people like that as
Experts, people who have been in industry for a while that haven’t heard about those people then yeah
So there’s an interesting theory that I don’t know if you guys remember
Mershel Prepper school
Mershel used to be like the dark overlord of an IRC channel called Bitcoin assets and
One of the things that that he had was that
The entire channel was locked down, and you couldn’t speak unless you had voice and in order to get voice you needed to be within
The trust network of somebody else that was within the trust network and the reason for this is he forced people to
Sit there and look and only after you had looked for awhile
And you got to know, like you know, some stuff about Bitcoin after like six months of lurking
Then you could maybe like start chatting to people privately what people would recognize you from other rooms
And then you might get voice you can ask for voice sometimes
And they would temporarily voice you for 30 minutes so that you could express your opinion on something
But if you’re an idiot then you’d get D voiced, and you’d never get it again
And I sort of think like it would be great if this translated into real life
And people that came into this cryptocurrency, the digital currency
Cryptocurrency whatever space, were forced to look for six months without expressing their opinion
And then slowly were allowed like to be more and more vocal instead of this like hey
“I’m a new person, and I read a Wikipedia article and I’m writing a book”
And you also see people on LinkedIn for example now being like Bitcoin evangelists and
Stuff like that or blockchain experts, who’ve been people in the bottom for like a little bit going like three months
They’re suddenly like blockchain experts and yeah
It really makes no sense you still have
People saying that they’re core developers even though they haven’t worked on a project for years
And they barely contributed in any code to
So an interesting question
Let’s change things up a bit
Ricardo came with this yesterday
So, someone in the South African Channel asks
I think you guys should give out a statement for everyone who has family
As to talk or interact with family during the holidays and
Who like claim that bitcoin is a ponzi, it’s money from nothing.
It’s a currency, it’s without value
It’s like internet money using up all the electricity in the world,
So how would you suggest that our viewers reply to statements like that
I don’t hear about people calling Bitcoin clumsy that much anymore, I think
The mainstream media is talking about Bitcoin all the time
And I think people are just realizing the potential of Bitcoin not thinking too much about it being a ponzi anymore
Ponzi was more like at 2016 thing, that people were calling it, now it’s just a fraud
I definitely have seen people that
The problem is they can’t wrap their head around it, and I guess it’s more like you know
Your uncle who used to be an accountant
It’s that sort of person, and they can’t wrap their head around how Bitcoin works
And so they go to is it must be tulipmania or the dot-com bubble
It’s the housing market crash of the eighties whatever
You know they’ve got all these analogies of like what bitcoin is, but they can’t understand why it has value
Yes, they can’t understand why it has value, that’s exactly it.
How would you reply to someone like that?
I just don’t talk to them
I’d like to talk a little—I mean, I’d like to talk to you about gold
Because gold has very little
Actual utility, I mean it does have utility right you can—it’s used in
Some electrical components and so on
But let’s be honest, gold has very little real utility and a lot of its value is like this intrinsic value
We give it, because it’s somewhat rare and it’s somewhat pretty and can be used in jewelry you or you know whatever yeah
But that’s all subjective like all of
All money is a human construct. It’s just something we make up just like
Nation-states and things like that right so if we can mix that up and we can say that you know this magic internet money is valuable
It’s just as easy
That’s what we’re doing today
We’re fooling everyone
Daddy needs a new lab book.
Yeah, we’re going back to the question
I think it’s better to talk about what makes things valuable and
And just approach that angle because if you go through the mental exercise of what makes gold valuable then it’s pretty clear
Digital currency does
Well what makes like cryptocurrency valuable is to me it’s the
Well what a major aspect is the fact that it can’t be censored right so it’s money that you yourself own
And no one can tell you what you can or cannot do with your money
And that’s something that wasn’t previously—that didn’t previously exist and the second is that you can send it to
It’s global, right? You can send it to someone on the other side of the world
Easily whereas with something like gold you can’t you can’t just like send announcement go to someone in China
Then mail it and then also like storage is
Costly for gold so if you compared to gold it’s like a better version of gold I
Think there’s like permits needed to actually ship gold around and
When you’re dealing with massive quantities of money and value, takes like hundreds of millions of dollars to move gold
I think Germany tried to move their gold from the US and it was like three months
By boat with armed guards and details, and it was like a couple hundred millions of dollars
Just to move the gold actually talking about moving stuff I
Just thought about
Normally when you move between countries, you’re allowed to have like ten thousand dollars’ worth of cash on you
What happens if you have your treasure or something else on you
Depends on the country and how they viewed the—that’s called the travel rule and the travel rule
I mean the only place I’ve ever actually seen the travel rule enforced has been the US, where we were leaving
Flying out of Los Angeles and
They checked our bags. They asked us if we had more than ten thousand dollars in cash
And they were checking some people’s bags to confirm
The thing with the travel rule is it’s not that you’re not allowed to carry more than $10,000
Dollars in cash,
It’s just that you have to declare it
And then they might ask you “why have you got half a million dollar?”
Whatever, and you’d have to justify that and that can be tricky for some people
You know, unless you’ve got a specific reason like you’re going to a trade show
But it’s only it’s for cash though so if you have Bitcoin cash that’s a problem but if you have Bitcoin that’s not an issue
So Zcash and Bitcoin cash are the real issues there.
Yeah definitely Bitcoin, Litecoin, Monero. You’re good
To your point about Ponzi, certain people are calling Bitcoin a Ponzi
Again certain people from a certain subreddit and
Friends of the subreddit, so they’re now pushing the narrative that because of the transaction fees
Bitcoin is starting to be a ponzi because no one can
Or not everyone can sell their coins anymore, if they own less than a certain amount
Because of the high transaction fees
Look, at the end of the day if you’re
There are traders who deal in really small amounts, right? They like those like sub
Sub 1 cent currencies and all that sort of stuff so any anything can have a transaction fee
That’s too high for you to move your tiny stash
I guess with Bitcoin, yeah, it’s kind of harsh that
That you can’t move your stash if it’s
Under a certain value, but what you could do is you could just send it with a very low transaction fee
And it’s going to take a few hours longer to confirm, and I guess maybe
Part of the problem
Is that people are either not aware that they can change transaction fees
Or they’re using a client that enforces a very high transaction fee
Or they’re not even using a client at all
They’re moving from exchange to exchange and the exchange is like well
You know we charge a $50 fee that is what it is
I think most wallets don’t do a good job of letting people set fees also, in addition to
Estimation of fees, so if there’s like a lot of problems with this in the need to be addressed from
An engineering standpoint and usability standpoint
But I mean like Ricardo said, you can always lowball the fees it’s a
It’s like the weather, right? You just check and see and then pool being spamed if not then no
Lowball and see if they’ll go through in an hour or two therefore people freaked out about the use of the term spam
I mean, that cryptokitty is spam, right,
If we’re being honest. It’s like filling up the Ethereum pool
With transactions that are
Probably not as important as some others
At least essentially
-Like an ICO?
No, I was thinking more likely if a Delta before they got hacked right
But yeah, you know like I mean anything can be spammed
If for a long time, Satoshi dies with spam a major source of it
That’s just a way of categorizing it using a term that is maybe not the best term if we’re being honest but
It’s a reasonably good way of explaining
That those transactions are probably not as important to some others.
Well, I mean, some people say that I mean the term spam is is
Kind of confusing because if you’re paying enough fee then
It’s not really spam right?
So yes, somebody may potentially be
Paying a lot of money to bloat the blockchain with
Transactions that are not real, transaction so to speak, but they’re paying the fees so you can’t really call that spam
Yeah, I mean it’s kind of it. Potentially is like an attack
So someone is willing to pay
Whatever ten thousand dollars a day to
Bloat the Bitcoin mempool to make Bitcoin seem unusable and it’s not
That expensive, if you’re—if you have like $10 dollars so,
But yeah, it’s potentially it’s an attack, but it’s something that we have to deal with we have to find a way to
Kind of maybe— I mean, that’s why the fees are so high, it’s because people
People are using Bitcoin, people are willing to pay the fees
Otherwise the fees wouldn’t be this high
Yeah, exactly
So the next question was
Because I asked two days ago on Twitter of people to post their questions
And one was “how many coins do you think will be around in 20 to 50 years?”
And “how much you think that the market will be consulted by them?”
Or really have like one particular type of coin, like one coin for anonymous transactions, one coin for like Bitcoin
One coin for smart contracts or whatever
How do you guys see that?
Are you showing one coin?
There’s only gonna be one coin
It’s called one-coin.
Yeah, I think
We’ll see a lot a lot fewer coins because a lot of the coins right now are just marketing coins.
They’re gimmicky and
They serve no real purpose like if you really don’t think of it
Nothing of that will still exist 20 years from now
I think a lot of coins will exist but a lot will disappear like the
Sure, but there will be new, for everyone that disappears is probably gonna be like 5 that shows up
I see it kind of a cycle.
It’s like an educational cycle.
It’s like all the fork coins, right?
Like every fork coin of Bitcoin that comes out is less impactful
Because people realize “okay, this is kind of garbage”
And they’re not really gonna care as much
But the first one or the first few, then you know
They can move the market, people are interested
It’s a new hype thing and they want in right but in 20 years
I think we’ll see a lot of the coins will just die either from their own
Security issues or just lack of mining— miners too
To mine the coin.
Yeah, there’s definitely a fetish nature to this
Remember when a few years ago?
Air drops were all the thing and then it was like ah Spain coin, and you know everyone was trying to do like a
Geographic coin and then they would air drop it on the
Wasn’t it a few yeas ago?
We’re still an air drop like the prime time of air drops, okay?
Yeah, but now this is the new generation of air drops because the geographic air drops went away
And then there was like, you know, the masternode hype like, every coin must have masternodes
And it just sort of goes through these and then ICO’s everyone must do an IC O
It’s like oh, you’re a start-up. You must do an ICO or forget about traditional VC, and it goes through the slack
There’s weird sort of hype cycle
And I think that will probably go through a ton more of those in the next 20 years
But I do think that there’s probably
Hopefully a handful of cryptocurrencies that exist today that will still be around in 20 years’ time
Because of the the nature of their development because of the fact that they have people working on them for altruistic reasons
Not just for for profit motivated reasons, and you know they have a community
That’s actually real and not just there to that get rich yeah, that makes sense so
Next question
Explain cryptocurrency to me like I’m a six-year-old
I mean, I guess we have to explain a little bit more complicated to a six-year-old, okay
So I’ll take a stab I’ll take a stab
So it’s like you’re at school, and you have a chocolate bar
Someone takes it from you at lunchtime if
That chocolate bar was a digital currency, they couldn’t take it from you
What’s the point of a chocolate bar if you can’t eat it?
Well you can eat it, but they couldn’t take it from you… Okay
You try, you try
Imagine you have a chocolate bar, but if someone takes it from you
They will have to return to you because everyone else in the yard says that the Chocolate Bar belongs to you so
They can’t take it from you
When has that ever happened? Charlie
And so they know who has chocolate bars
And who— if you give your chocolate bar to someone, then it’s fine because everyone can see that
But if someone tries to steal it from you, then everyone will beat them up if they don’t give it back
That’s a good one, actually I’m gonna use that from now on
I saw tweet about recently that there are children now or nine years old and
Like Bitcoin has been there their entire life
And it’s really crazy when you think about that and they will grow up with Bitcoin and they will
Like understand it better than anyone else.
I have a family friend a family friend of ours
Their kid, a while back
I was on my laptop
And the kid came up and started pushing on the screen like it’s that must be a touchscreen
And couldn’t understand why stuff wasn’t working
You know when you grow up with technology like capacitive touchscreens
Then you take for granted the fact that some screens are not touchscreens
And I think that that’s gonna happen you’re gonna have kids who like
Why must they swipe the card?
They want to scan a QR code to pay
And what do you mean they can’t
Send money or like to somebody who lives in another country. That’s just weird
Another question, how do you sleep at night?
I don’t know in what context it was but someone asked to all of us.
How do you sleep at night? It might have been a troll?
Usually with lights off with a soft pillow
Fluffy blanket,
Butt naked as all pony sleep
I don’t sleep
Yeah, I don’t think some Sun’s don’t sleeps either
So Ricardo, can you talk about nimble Bimble
Implementation in Monero
So it’s something that we’ve been playing around with and by we— I mean like people around me
Who are interested in in this will probably do memorable stuff is like
Like a merge mine sidechain or something like that
We’ve looked at different deployment mechanisms and cool ways to do it
And I think that the merge mine side chain model is probably the base we’re going to get for now
Because it provides a nice coupling, and we don’t need to go and like
And adopt a new security model, and we’re looking into Monero’s security model
And the nice thing is if we build it up in such a way that
We build a lightning route, that’s compatible with
The mumble bumble sidechain and compatible with Monero,
Then we get atomic swaps over lightning
So that’s kind of cool because then we don’t need to worry about
How do we do atomic swaps between main chain, inside chain
Yeah, and talking about atomic swaps
Charlie, how long do you think that it will take before that will
Become like a common thing with litecoin and with Bitcoin
Well, so I guess we’re still waiting for people to start using a lightning Network, right?
For lightning network to be
More mainstream and for people to adopt it
So I think 2018, we’ll see Lightning Network really being used
I’m hoping like big exchanges like Coinbase will really embrace it and actually
Be like one of the largest Lightning Network nodes
Yeah, so once that happens, then
We’ll have Lightning Network from multiple chains, and then we’ll see atomic swaps
You know what’s really cool about lightning is that
You can have the lightweight clients like web wallets
For lightning that don’t need to know about the consensus model of the underlying system at all
So it means that it’s significantly easier to build a lightweight client
Yeah, I mean that’s what this beauty of the like second layer technology, right?
You can abstract away the complexity of the of the base layer, yeah
And the last important question is when is the real cartoon coming out?
So many people, everyone was so excited about intro, nice job, Samsung
But now everyone’s asking for like the cartoon or like a couple of minutes episode or like a full-length movie
Well I think we can do some shorts
Maybe like a couple of minutes long, tell some short stories, the movie
You know, I don’t know, sometime in 2019,
We got a raise some reason next year, that’s gonna be expensive next year
I mean should we do an ICO, right?
-An initial cartoon
Totally, but I’m thinking about what we could do for a movie
I think Charlie has some ideas too, so it’s definitely a possibility
People thought it was interesting to like educate their kids about crypto.
Children like this song and everything so it might actually be also
Educational for children
We’ll pay now so you can sing the song for us, right?
Something about the pony and the line and something yeah
So I guess that’s it for this month’s, so thank you guys for joining and see you guys next time. Bye
Bye, bye


  1. Almost 5,000 bitcoiners have signed the Coinbase SegWit petition. Let’s get it to 10,000 https://www.change.org/p/coinbase-coinbase-prioritize-segwit-implementation-on-the-coinbase-bitcoin-wallet-gdax-exchange


  3. Charlie should have given away 10 LTC to ten lucky people for every video.. Jeeze… Lol. I'll be glued to this channel… Lol

  4. If the world of crypto were run by these 4 the world would be full of magical ponies,super chicken powered mutants and wonderful parties in the buff 😉

  5. Great podcast.. Fluffypony gotta chill, though.. please wait for other's to think and share more. They've been in this game a long time a have deep knowledge. Great stuff! Thanks everyone!

  6. "We are fooling everyone! Shhh!" LOL! I can see that taken out of context!!! See! See! We were right! It is a scam! Of course, the context is you were joking. Thanks guys really enjoying watching this.

  7. HELP HELP, Where should I store my bitcoin for all future hard forks. I bought two bitcoins 3 months and I guess coinbase never welcome any hard forks and missed lots of my hard forks. I really don't want to miss out any other new Bitcoin hard folks. where should store my bitcoin for any future hard forks? Please help me, I am new to Crypto world. at least I a recover some of my money from downmarket.

    Note: I have a NANO ledger wallet, does it support all or few or none hard forks.

    Thanks a lot for your help in advance.

  8. Everyone should have "core developer" in their profile to turn it into a massive defense against the underestimated strategy to paint core as a faceless enemy, lurking in the shadows, sending out minions. If not that, then something else needs to be done to give core a face that isn't mine and yours attached to accusations of being a paid troll. That faceless enemy strategy can have powerful effects on the imagination of outsiders to a belief system, and could even destroy the public perception of bitcoin/crypto when combined w just 1 strategically placed commercial in the superbowl(or other mass watched event) for "bitcoin", and bitcoin.con. Imagine, on top of that, they drop "cash" to avoid confusion with the dollar and also start selling "Bitcoin reload packs – available everywhere gift cards are sold"… If 100 million people believe what they see in the commercial, and even 1 million of them bought "bitcoin"… How do you fight that without looking "anti-bitcoin" and also without the public perception of bitcoin being destroyed? Sure you might convince everyone they got duped, but there will be a lot of angry people, which there should already be.

    idk but people seem to think Ver and these other guys are making a shitty attempt to win over bitcoin, but they're not trying to win you over, they're baiting you into helping spread ideas that serve a greater strategy of stealing bitcoin out from under the world, and sell something else back to them.

  9. Great entertaining and educational video. I’m looking forward for the third video.
    Ps: some of you might think about changing the mics with better sounding ones 🙂

  10. I would love it if the video's were a bit less time lagged, it would be great if you guys post them the day (or day after) the recording 🙂

  11. this message is from the not too distant future, Litecoin is now 600$ plus Jamie Demon checks his closet and under his bed for the litecoin "boogie monster” before he goes to bed at night

  12. If I cross a border with a Trezor, regardless of how many whatever coin I can access with it, I am not carrying ANY dollars.

  13. i thought this might be a small blocker show when the theme song had "hodl" in it and then i was pretty sure it was when i saw the fork sticking in bitcoin's foot lol what no, and i was worried/interested like ooh, did small blockers actually come out with an awesome cartoon show that'd be something, but then it's just a normal crypto show with dudes talking.. it felt to me like you were scared to say Bitcoin Cash and then when someone did say it it was a laugh line to let out tension so that makes sense! thanks for being good sports and accepting BCH donations, i sent you 500 bits 🙂

  14. In South Africa there are lots of ponzi schemes that take bitcoin as payment, therefore its easy to see why there are lots of people who think that bitcoin is a ponzi scheme…Some the people think they are joining bitcoin, when they actually join a ponzi…they go to a presentation about bitcoin, its normally awesome, then they are keen to join, and the presentation organisers sign them up to a ponzi scheme.

  15. Holly shit I couldn't stop laughing at that intro. 😂🤣🤣😂🤣
    Charlie Lee is an amazing character. Litecoin will succeed 👍

  16. God damn, Charlie is such a reasonable guy that I believe he is aiming to make LTC the real transaction crypto and at the same time make LTC what BTC was supposed to be… A decentralized, drama free currency.

  17. Rebrand your MCF so it's not a lame parody of MLP, focus on the animation and bombard your target audience with Aesop episodes and you could make a real franchise off this. Spread the word too.

  18. Why does nobody mention POC as an alternative to POW? Most people only see Bitcoin… that's like you're living behind the moon…

  19. Charlie – you keep saying "if Litecoin succeeds"… can you define success for LTC, please? Isn't it just taking market share from BTC and thus preventing the realization of our collective vision of having a global, incorruptible sound money network?

  20. Glad I found this, it’s a relief to listen to those who are in the know. I don’t have much to invest but I’m willing to try. So much to learn before I do. Thanks guys.
    (Newbie to cryptocurrency)

  21. @29:00 Surprised with this answer. Your Trezor doesn't "hold" bitcoin value. Bitcoin sits on the blockchain, so you are not moving value from one country to another, your essential just carrying the keys to your value.

  22. Could you guys please discuss the whole tether issue in the upcoming podcast? It's been creating a lot a FUD recently but there seems to be reason for real concern of how it's inflating bitcoin price and crypto in general… Love the channel btw! Good to see a fellow belgian dude behind this channel.

  23. Watching this again with a new perspective. Brings a whole new meaning to value, censorship, and global. Yes it is good to listen.

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